Tan early period of the ses

on the 14th day of February,

finances was brought before the house of commons by Mr. Herries, who has for many years enjoyed the reputation of being one of the most sound and able financial statesmen in the country. The discussion arose in consequence of his moving on the 13th of February for the production of the following papers, "Accounts of the income of the consolidated fund, including therewith the duties on sugar, and of the charges thereupon, in the year 1839; distinguished under the principal heads of receipt and expenditure; and also an estimate of the same for the year 1840; showing in each case the surplus applicable to the supplies voted by parliament. Account showing the amount of the deficiency of bills charged on the growing produce of the consolidated fund outstanding, unsatisfied

ruary, 1840, respectively. Account of the total of the funded and unfunded debt extinguished, in each of the three years preceding the 5th of January, 1840, distinguishing the stock created in lieu of exchequer bills cancelled, being the produce of monies invested by savings' banks. Account of the total amount of the unfunded debt outstanding on the 5th day of January, the 5th day of April, 5th day of July, and the 10th day of October in each of the years, 1837, 1838, and 1839, stating the rate of interest on exchequer bills, issued at or about the same period, the current rates of premium or discount on the same in the public market, the prices of the three per cent consolidated annuities. Account of the total net income and expenditure of the United Kingdom in each of

the twelve years, between the 5th day of January, 1828, and the 5th day of January, 1840, in continuation of the account annexed to the fourth report of the committee on finance in 1828, wherein the same is exhibited from the year 1792. Of all the papers mentioned in his motion (said Mr. Herries) only one was contested, and indeed only a part of that one. He would merely at that moment notice the document which related to the unfunded debt, by which he thought he should be able to show to the house and country that there had been in that department of the public administration, a great degree of mismanagement. The paper to which an objection was to be made, was that relating to the income of the consolidated fund for 1840. The object of asking for that estimate was, to arrive at a knowledge of the pecuniary resources of the country for the present year.

Lord Althorp (continued Mr. Herries) had proposed to reduce a number of taxes, but still he retained a clear surplus revenue of 5,000,000l. a year. Whilst he was chancellor of the exchequer, a temporary deficiency of revenue had indeed occurred, occasioned by the hasty reduction of taxes; but that was made up in the following year, and was the only instance of a deficiency in the revenue antecedent to the time when the present ministry came into office.

The chancellor of the exchequer (Mr. Baring) said, the part of the motion to which he objected was, for a return "of the estimated income of the consolidated fund for the year 1840." The rest of the returns he was quite willing to give. There re

mained, therefore, no question as to any account whatever included in these returns, as there only existed on the part of the government an objection to that return which practically involved that section of the budget which comprised the income of the future year.

The information respecting the Post-office, would be laid before the house in the returns which he himself had moved for; and until those were produced, the calculations of the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Herries) could have little weight.

With regard to the early introduction of the universal low rate of postage, he had felt it to be his duty as finance minister, to place the post-office question, at the carliest possible period, in such a position, that parliament might have some months experience before the financial statement of the year appeared.

The right hon. gentleman (Mr. Herries) had alluded to the course taken by government respecting the general debt of the country, and had made some observations concerning the course pursued by former administrations.

It was true, the right hon. gentleman had during his tenure of office, had it in his power to reduce the debt, and had availed himself of that power, and had effected much of the reduction by converting permanent debt into terminable annuities. In the administration which succeeded that of the right hon. gentleman (sir Robert Peel), the increase and diminution of the debt had been as

follows:-on the 5th of January, 1831, the amount of funded capital was 757,486,9971.; on the 5th of January, 1839, the amount

was 761,347,690., showing an increase of the funded debt of 3,860,6931.; on the 5th of January, 1831, the amount of capital unfunded was 27,271,6567.; on the 5th of January, 1839, 24 655,300l, showing a decrease of 2,616,350, and a total increase on capital debt of 1,244,3431. Thus, there had been an addition under the present government of not less than twenty millions to the public debt, and this effected not by any financial arrangements of the ministry; nor by any of the mismanagement of which so much had been said, but added for the purpose of freeing our fellow subjects from slavery.

In the last year before the Whigs came into office, he found (proceeded Mr. Baring) that the difference between the amount collected, and the amount paid into the exchequer was 4,875,000l. While in 1839, the last year of which the account could be got, the difference amounted to only 4.042,000, showing a reduction of 833,000! in a sum under five millions. The state of the customs and excise was the best criterion, and it appeared, that in 1830, they amounted together to 36,184,000; and in 1839, to 35,919,000l., showing little alteration, without taking into consideration the reduction made during that period. When he looked to the produce of the revenue, he found that it kept up in a remark able manner; and when he remembered the reduction of taxation during that period, which was upwards of six millions, he could not but deem it as a conclusive proof that the resources of the country were uninjured.

Mr. Goulburn wished to understand from the chancellor of

the exchequer whether he really meant to ground his opposition to the motion upon the absence of precedent? For if so, he would state one or two instances, which seemed to him to be in point.

The finances of the country now presented such an aspect, and things had now arrived at such a pass, that it became the imperative duty of a faithful house of commons to look the affairs of the nation in the face. In the public mind there existed an extreme solicitude with regard to financial affairs. An alarming deficiency was apprehended; and it became, therefore, the duty of the house to consider the means which were to be proposed for making due provision for that deficiency.

Mr. Herries said, he intended merely to call attention to the occurrences of the last three years; and he would confine his observations to the period from January to January. On looking back to the returns of the statement for 1837, he found that there was a deficiency on the produce of the revenue to meet the expenditure to the amount of 726,000l. In 1838, he discovered that there had been a further deficiency of the same kind, amounting to440,000%.; thus making together the sum of 1,166,000l., as the amount of the deficiency which existed at the close of 1838. In the year 1839, it appeared that there was a further deficiency of 1,512,000l., making altogether 2,678,000l. at the end of 1:39. Under these circumstances, was he not justified in pressing for an account of the state of the finances for the year 1840?

A great increase had been made in some of the most important establishments of the country. In

the navy estimates there was an additional charge of 500,000l., which together with the deficiency of 1,500,000l. in 1839, would make that for the year 1840 amount to no less a sum than 4,678,0007. And if (continued Mr. Herries) the loss of revenue, in consequence of the change in the system of postage, which had been estimated by the authorities at the Post-office, at from 1,200,000l. to 1,400,000, were added to the deficiency of the preceding year, there would be found at the close of 1840 a deficiency amounting to nearly six millions.

From the year 1816, until 1828, when the finance committee sat, the revenue had been kept in such a state as to satisfy the anxiety of those who were anxious for a large surplus income; and had been found sufficient to effect a large reduction in the national debt. In the report of that committee, it was shown, that in the period of peace, between 1817 and 1828, there had been a reduction of 3,500,000l. on the charge of the debt, while at the same time 26,000,000 of taxes had been taken off.

In 1803, an account was moved for, of the reduction in the amount of the consolidated fund, in consequence of the bill for consolidating the duties of customs. It was said, that the house had a right to call for a specific account of the computed addition to, or reduction of the consolidated fund from the alteration of taxation which had taken place, and it was acquiesced in by government, and agreed to without hesitation.

Again there was a precedent in 1823. Lord Ripon had made an alteration of a tax, and in the dis

cussion on the subject, a question arose how far it would affect the consolidated fund, and a motion was made, "That there be laid before the house an estimate of the probable future increase of the consolidated fund, after allowing for the probable loss by reason of taxes reduced, and of the future annual charge for the same." This was a complete precedent for the course which his right hon. friend (Mr. Herries) had adopted in bringing forward his motion.

Mr. Hume considered, that the government had great difficulties to contend with. There was a deficiency of six millions in three years; and besides that, the house was bound to consider the events which had taken place in China. A further deficiency of at least half a million might be expected in consequence of the thousands in Ireland, who had pledged themselves to Father Matthew, to abstain from drinking whiskey. for the alteration in the postage duties, he had never concealed from himself the loss of revenue which must of necessity be expected in consequence, and he gave the greatest possible credit to the government for carrying that measure into effect.

As

Mr. Labouchere supported the views of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and sir G. Clerk followed on the same side as Mr. Herries, who briefly replied, and on the division which took place, the ministers were again left in a minority-the numbers being in favour of the motion 182; against it 172.

The ministerial budget which was put off from time to time was at last brought forward by the chancellor of the exchequer on the 15th of May in a speech of great