majesty, to be the fittest person who could be chosen for that high trust; but he still thought that the bill was, by the clause relative to the Windsor establishment, made inconsistent, and that to render it an intelligent piece of legislation, it was absolutely necessary that the clause should be struck out. Their lordships' would recollect that it was not the first time the noble earl had changed an opinion, after intimating that opinion in that House. And he gave some examples of such a change. On a former occasion, when he (lord Holland) thought the Windsor establishment much too large for any purposes of comfort to our afflicted monarch, lords of the bed-chamber started up to say, that they who had stuck by the king in his prosperity, would not desert him in his adversity; and that they would not take away one iota from the splendor which surrounded their sovereign. What security was there now, that lords of the bed-chamber might not again start up, to declare that they would not take away any of the splendor which surrounded the monarch? Surely it became the House to pause before they sanctioned an establishment, without knowing of what that establishment was to consist.

The Earl of Liverpool observed, that their lordships were now only proceeding to legislate on a part of the subject upon which no difference of opinion existed. They were all agreed as to the propriety of establishing the custody of the king's person in one of the royal family, and also, that the duke of York should be the person appointed.

They were further agreed in vesting in him the establishment to be settled upon him in consequence of such appointment. A difference of opinion might arise with respect to the amount of the establishment; but the best way of proceeding would be to appoint the duke of York in the first instance, and to leave the other subject for a future occasion. The noble lord had objected against giving to the duke of York the patronage of the establishment, when they did not know to what it was to be reduced. But the question was, whether they would refuse to the duke being custos persona, the privileges that belonged to the character in which they were agreed that he should be placed.

Lord Holland said, that he did not join issue with the noble earl. In one word, his objection was this; that if they agreed to the clause in its present shape, without any qualification, they would allow a principle of larger extent than the noble lord would himself, upon reflection, be willing to recognize. Having thus stated his opinion, he would not give their lordships the trouble of dividing.

The amendment was then negatived.

The earl of Liverpool having now to propose filling up the blank left by the death of lord Ellenborough, moved the appointment of marquis Camden.

Lord Holland concurred most heartily in the motion, and said he was the fittest person that could be selected.

The bill then went through the committee.

On the 4th of February, a message

message was sent by the Prince Regent to the House of Commons, apprising them, that the sum of 58,000l. per annum, which was appropriated to the maintenance of the establishment, and to the support of the honor and dignity of her late majesty, having become disposable by his Royal Highness for the general purposes of the civil list, the Prince Regent places this sum at the disposal of parliament: he thinks it at the same time incumbent upon him to state, that there exist certain claims upon a part of this saving which he recommends to the justice and liberality of the House of Commons, being founded on the faithful services of the persons who form the separate establishment of her late majesty, and are limited to these services.

The Prince Regent is satisfied that he may confidently rely on the loyal attachment of the House of Commons to enable him, upon the reduction of that establishment, to grant to the several individuals belonging to it such allowances as it has been usual for the crown to bestow on former occasions, when the royal family has been visited with a similar affliction.

Lord Castlereagh then moved an address of thanks to his Royal Highness for his message, assuring him that the House would proceed to take the same into their immediate consideration. The motion was agreed to.

Lord Castlereagh then again rose, and after a due notice of the bill brought down from the House of Lords, the effect of which was, to nominate the duke of York custos of the king's

person, he adverted to the second part of the question, which it would be necessary for him to be fuller in opening.

(Lord Castlereagh). The sums which parliament had now to dispose of were 100,000l. which had been appropriated to the Windsor establishment; 58,000/ out of the civil list, which had been appropriated to the maintenance of the queen; and 10,000Z. which had been granted to her majesty, to defray the additional expense to which she had been subject in the discharge of her duty as custos of the king's person. This last sum he would propose should be continued to his royal highness the duke of York as custos. Out of the remaining 158,000l., the House would wish to know what would be the saving. It was proposed that 50,000l. should be appropriated to the support of the Windsor establishment. The saving therefore would be 50,0007. on this establishment, and 58,0007. on that of the queen, but this last sum would be burthened with the salaries to the servants of her late majesty. These salaries were about 25,000l. so that the immediate saving on the two establishments, which were to be continued to the servants during their life, was 83,000l. After the best consideration which the Prince Regent's ministers had given to the subject, they did not think that they should do their duty, if they left a less sum for the Windsor establishment than 50,000l. a year.

It should be mentioned, that Lord C. soon after the commencement of his speech, declared his intention to be, that

he

he meant eventually to refer the whole subject to a committee of the whole House; but as there were considerations of detail which could not conveniently be discussed in that manner, he intended on that night to nominate a select committee to which the estimates might be referred, leaving them to report it to the House. His lordship, on the conclusion of his speech, moved the names of the members of whom the committee should be constituted, which seem to have been fairly divided among the different parties in the House. Their number was 21.

Mr. Long Wellesley, after some remarks on the state of his majesty, who, he thought, ought to enjoy all the personal splendor which was due to royalty, said that he had one or two questions to put to the noble lord. He had said, that the same salary which had been given to the queen, should now be given to the duke of York, for the care of the royal person. He did not conceive why this should be the case. He remembered the cause assigned for a sum of 10,000l. to be given to her majesty, as a remuneration for certain extra expenses which she might incur; but now, without the assignment of any similar cause, the same sum was to be allowed to the duke of York. He wished therefore to know, and he thought the country should know, why different reasons should be assigned in 1812, and in 1819 for the same act. If the sum was to be given to the royal duke as custos persona, let it be so stated, but let it not be understood as given

for any other purpose. He wished also to know, from the noble lord, whether if this situation were to be given to the duke of York, it was intended to continue him in the high situation which at present he holds as commanderin-chief. He was as ready as any man to admit the services which the duke of York had rendered to the army; but he confessed that he himself did not think that he should be performing the duty he owed as a member of that House, if he did not state, that in the present situation of the country, and at a time when a constitutional jealousy ought to be exercised with respect to the powers which might become vested in the individual who held the chief command in the army, he was jealous of the principle which would confide two such important trusts in one hand.

Lord Castlereagh said, that as the extra sum given to her majesty was intended as a remuneration for her habits of life being altered by becoming custos persona, so the same principle was followed up by bestowing the same sum of 10,000l. on the duke of York. With regard to the other observation respecting the royal duke holding two such important trusts, he was not aware of any thing which should prevent his royal highness as commander-in-chief of the army, from accepting the care of his royal father's person; and he was certain that he could not convey more melancholy tidings to the House and the country, than that it should be thought necessary to remove his royal highness from a situation in which he had gained

SO

so much credit, to one of a different kind.

Mr. Tierney was glad that this question was brought before the House in so satisfactory a manner, because its final issue would be the result of the most diligent and minute deliberation. In the observations he had to make, he should begin with noting the noble lord's assumption that the proposed reduction was a voluntary offer of economy on the part of the government. On his part, he viewed it as a necessary consequence of circumstances which had lately occurred. By the death of her majesty a great part of the Windsor establishment was done away with, and the House were called upon to see at what expense the subsequent arrangements could be made; for the money so spared was the property of the public, and it was the province of the House, and of that alone, to decide how it was to be disposed of. In considering it, therefore, he should first look to the measure of economy, and afterwards inquire about the

expense.

There was one subject of past transactions which he could not omit to notice, which was the appointment of four lords, and four grooms of the bed-chamber, by the very individuals who now came forwards to say, that they were an useless burthen upon the public. They had continued a burden upon the country for seven years, which they now declare to have been unnecessary from the first. Here then, according to the present avowal of ministers, was a sum of 42,000l. lost; and if there was any one

sum of useless expenditure which might be said to be thrown away, it was the sum just now mentioned. With respect to the sum of 10,000l. to be given to the duke of York, he should say, that any extra expense to which his royal highness might be put in the care of his majesty, ought, most undoubtedly, to be defrayed by the public, be the sum great or small. If the same grant were shown to be necessary for the duke of York, he should be ready to accede to it, but let that necessity be first proved. Let the noble lord lay before the House, not merely the sums which were said to be required, but something like the particulars of what they were for, and it would not be difficult to come to a right understanding. Mr. T. next discussed the sum charged for the Windsor establishment, which he thought much beyond what was necessary. He then touched upon the remuneration to be granted to the physicians, on which point the noble lord had not given any explanation. He concluded with saying, that he could have no other object than honestly to discharge the duty he owed to his aged and infirm sovereign, not forgetting, at the same time, what was due to the wants of the country.

Mr. Canning expressed his confidence, that the admission of the right hon. gentleman, if acted upon frankly, and in the spirit in which he professed to make it, would bring him and his noble friend much nearer in their opinions on the subject than the right hon. gentleman at present perhaps supposed. He then

took

took a general view of the differences which might be expected still to oppose their junction, in which he corrected Mr. T. in his notion, that any one could subscribe to the opinion, that the privy purse was other than the property of the king, after the words of the act in 1812 had absolutely decided in favour of his majesty's claim.

Mr. Tierney, in explanation, said that he well knew the provisions of the act of 1812; and in adding that he was ready to repeal it, he expected to have the hon. gentleman for his seconder.

It was then agreed, that the Prince Regent's Message should be referred to a committee of the whole House on the 11th instant; and that the Royal Establishments be referred to a select committee.

On February 5, the Prince Regent's message respecting her late majesty's establishment having been read, the Earl of Liverpool rose to move an humble Address to the Prince Regent, in which he took notice of his Royal Highness's munificence in placing the whole sum of 58,000l. at the disposal of Parliament, and only asked that justice to be done to the servants of her late majesty, which had been done in all former cases of the demise of a queen. The allowances on this occasion might be estimated at 25,000l.; from which there would remain 33,000l. immediately at the disposal of the public; and it could not be supposed, that any of their lordships would be disposed to resist a claim which was one of justice and liberality. The earl then moved an humble Address

to the Prince Regent, thanking him for his gracious communication, and assuring his Royal Highness, that their lordships would not fail to pay due attention to the claims recommended by his Royal Highness to their notice.

The Marquis of Lansdowne was willing to concur in the general object of the Address, on account of the practical application of the fund in question, which he fully approved. But as to the power implied by the message, of the king or his ministers to take one head of the civil list, and apply it to any other purposes of the civil list, he held it to be an assertion totally inconsistent with the spirit, if not with the letter, of the act for the regulation of the civil list which was passed two or three years ago. The demands for the maintenance of her majesty and her servants formed part of the estimates on which the sums were voted; there appeared, therefore, no reason for saying that a sum, which had been appropriated to one branch of the civil list, should, in the case of the ground on which it was granted ceasing, become applicable to other branches. With respect to the application of the 58,000l. as proposed by the message, no person felt more strongly than he did, the propriety of that application.

The Earl of Liverpool said, that when, from the votes of the other House, the matter came regularly before their lordships, he should feel it his duty to give such explanations as the occasion might seem to him to require. With regard to the question imme

diately